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Highway 275 Conference

Tournament announcements, results, and discussion about specific tournaments.
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MoundCityBMW...T
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Highway 275 Conference

Post by MoundCityBMW...T »

The 275 Conference tournament started yesterday and it will finish (thankfully) today. it's being held at tarkio again this year. competition looks stiffer than usual for our conference. Rockport is decent and it turns out that tarkio has a new quiz bowl class 4th hour. no sour grapes here--i'd rather take a real class-- but i'm just worried that tarkio (which doesn't get capitalized--ever) has "peeked" at questions they normally wouldn't get or their coach has looked through them and then picked out certain things for their team to study. They set up the bracket in such a fashion that we played the 2 other top teams in the conference (by placing us at the bottom of the bracket (even though we've won conference for the past 4 years) and they played the 2 of the worst teams in the conference. it's just very slanted toward and the playing field is just not that great and there's a bad vibe and 275 conference sucks and i'm ranting...apparently the tarkio ag teacher told our coach that she was a liar and a cheat (or something to that effect) yesterday...god i hate tarkio...you should too. p.s. the questions are avery and they suck...bad...

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L-Town Expatriate
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Post by L-Town Expatriate »

At least South Holt's hosting districts.

Oh, wait: didn't they frak your district up last year too?

Trey
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Post by Trey »

Indeed! My opinion on South Holt's ability to host districts is... Well, I'd prefer to have them elsewhere. Even Rockport, which is a good hour and a half away from us, was better.

MoundCityBMW...T
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Post by MoundCityBMW...T »

okay--i have the results from the Highway we don't the know the *ucking rules conference.

the reason i have changed the name of the conference is because of a moderator at Tarkio that for some godforsaken reason was allowed to moderate all of our games (including the semi-finals and championship) okay--breathe--the moderator was like 90 years old--he couldn't pronounce hardly anything--and for some reason he believed that there was no such thing as a protest or challenge---he wouldn't even ask for more specific---(tarkio buzzed in and said Helen and he said incorrect without asking to be more specific because on the paper it said Helen of Troy" so i had like 9 different protests with this guy that were completely ignored. he told me that it was possible to be missing a right arm but still be able to have a right hand--he told me that the name of the character in the Dreiser novel Sister Carrie was indeed Sister Carrie even though she wasn't a nun...(they wanted her name not the name of the novel) i said carrie he said no sister carrie--the question said what's the name of the house in which the pyncheon's live and i said seven gables and he said no it's the house of seven gables---

long story short we lost to tarkio by 30 pts (or--them getting the last toss-up after my answer of carrie was not accepted) in the semi's...turned around played Rockport in the semi-finals of the loser's bracket and whomped them...turned around and played tarkio in the championship---(the championship was a doozy--bad calls on both sides multiple times...)lost to tarkio by 2 questions which is funny because he ruled like 4 or 5 of my answers wrong that were completely right. just because they didn't match the paper exactly... i'm still waiting for the difference between porous and poriferous...

anyway--*hit was *ucked up--we got second...

i hate tarkio and you should too--not because we lost--but because the lady running the tourney--"tarkio's coach" wouldn't tell that guy that there was such a thing AS A PROTEST--he said that our answers had to match the paper exactly and that the answers on the paper were right and then he found a bonus that had a wrong answer thus going back on everything he had been yelling at us about...

it was a travesty and i hope he chokes.

Districts are indeed at South Holt--i too have always liked having districts at rockport--probably because of the sweet matches between MC and SJC...

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L-Town Expatriate
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Post by L-Town Expatriate »

It sounds more like Tarkio has a vendetta against you. Better hope Coach White will have the nerve to insist that they not host again.

Or... you could complain to the athletic director and hope to heck he or she hates Tarkio enough to petition the rest of the conference (and maybe MSHSAA) to expel them. (Don't tell our congressman; he's from Tarkio!)

Or... Coach White can disown any meet they host, and if they host districts, proceed to file complaints against them with MSHSAA's office.

Or... you could petition the AD to pull out of the conference.

Or... you could just say "Frak this conference; we are too good for you!"

Heck, we should make this a poll.

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ajax
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Post by ajax »

God, sounds like tarkio is a bunch of a**es, I wouldn't go to their tourneys, and I would pull out of that conference.

East Buc & UMR
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Post by East Buc & UMR »

yes because the reason we belong to conferences is for quiz bowl

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Post by L-Town Expatriate »

East Buc & UMR wrote: yes because the reason we belong to conferences is for quiz bowl
Or 8-man football that's confined to Northwest Missouri. I think MSHSAA's said in the past that if any more schools drop their teams or upgrade to 11, the others will have to do the same.

If Tarkio keeps pulling crap like that and they're hosting next year, definitely say "not going". They wouldn't be the only black-listed tourney hosts in the state for that reason.

bdavery
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Post by bdavery »

As this year's vendor, we take the incidents mentioned with Tarkio (and Purdy in a previous topic) very seriously. I have contacted the people at Tarkio and Purdy who bought this year's set from us, detailing the allegations made on this board regarding bad moderating and looking at the questions beforehand and sending a copy of my note to MSHSAA for their information.

Both schools wanted the set of questions extremely early in the school year even though their tournaments apparently aren' t until now. We will make sure not to send them out so early next year.

I will make two other comments here:

1) If you are a player in a match under hostile conditions (moderator older than dirt and dumb as a post, questions stink to high heaven, tournament director summarily denies all protests, the other team may have seen the questions beforehand, etc.), it is far better to adjust during the match than to keep doing what you've been doing and whine about it later. In that situation, you don't gratuitously say "poriferous" instead of "porous" even though they're synonyms, nor would you say "Samuel Clemens" for "Mark Twain." Things like that just ask for trouble. You and your coach should only need to see one issue with an answer or with a protest denied to realize, "Time to keep it simple and give the simplest and most likely answers." If you need more than one issue to realize this, it's not the situation that's killing you. It's you that's killing you.

2) As far as questions: We were told before we got the job that half the state of Missouri loves one-line tossups and half prefers "pyramid" tossups. Judging by comments here, this is true. The "one-line" lovers call pyramid-style "boring, long, yada, yada, no one cares, goes on forever", while the "pyramid" lovers call one-line "too short, too easy, too stupid, every question is a buzzer race."

Every round we write in Missouri has some of both _because both styles are used statewide_. Though this guarantees that everyone will hate the questions, it also guarantees that the winners will be the ones who can adjust best to a style that is not their favorite. And that is a mark of a true champion.

If you have constructive comments on questions (i.e. if you're not whining about why all the tossups are not your favorite style), you can e-mail us at bda@averyenterprises.net


best, Bryce Avery
President, Avery Enterprises, Inc.

Trey
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Post by Trey »

1) If you are a player in a match under hostile conditions (moderator older than dirt and dumb as a post, questions stink to high heaven, tournament director summarily denies all protests, the other team may have seen the questions beforehand, etc.), it is far better to adjust during the match than to keep doing what you've been doing and whine about it later. In that situation, you don't gratuitously say "poriferous" instead of "porous" even though they're synonyms, nor would you say "Samuel Clemens" for "Mark Twain." Things like that just ask for trouble. You and your coach should only need to see one issue with an answer or with a protest denied to realize, "Time to keep it simple and give the simplest and most likely answers." If you need more than one issue to realize this, it's not the situation that's killing you. It's you that's killing you.
Sorry, but I am going to call bull**** on this. Everything else you said makes sense. I honestly have never heard of a top Missouri team prefering the short, one line questions, but maybe you do know better than I do. I can accept that. But if you are asked for the man who was born in Florida, Missouri and authored the works *BUZZ*, you have no idea whether they would want "Clemens" or "Twain". Twain might seem more obvious to some people, but you can't say that all people assume that the same answer is the most obvious answer. As far as the player knows, the end of the "pyramid" question might ask what his real name was. Clemens is by far the safer answer, in my opinion. And who is to say that a textbook that teaches the "Battle of Tours" as the "Battle of Poitiers - 732" is more complicated or less correct?

*** EDIT ***
I'm not saying that the moderator/question problems were necessarily Avery's fault. I would hope and expect that if Twain was an answer, then the questions would also list Clemens as a possible answer. But it is unfair to say that a team should "adjust" to a setting that goes against the rules of Missouri quiz bowl.

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Jeffrey Hill
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Post by Jeffrey Hill »

Trey wrote: I would hope and expect that if Twain was an answer, then the questions would also list Clemens as a possible answer.
Questions should always include all possible answers. Mark Twain should always be accompanied by Samuel Clemens, and usually the question should accept either at any point in the question. However, if a question specifically asks for "the real name of the author of Tom Sawyer" or something like that, the player should be prompted on "Mark Twain" if they buzz in before "real name" is read by the moderator (or it may even be straight-out accepted before "real name" is mentioned). Describing information about Mark Twain with the answer of "Mark Twain" being flat-out not accepted is a left turn.

Of course, with the questions as they were, all of this should have been able to be protested and determined to be correct (of course, this would annoyingly prolong the game).

If a moderator does something that is majorly different from the MSHSAA rules (such as saying there's no such thing as a protest, unless of course the [WRITTEN] rules for the specific tournament state otherwise) I would try to get the situation resolved immediately, possibly going as far as getting the tournament director to come in and fix the situation. Yes it might be inconvenient and slow down the game, but something that significant that can unfairly change the outcome of the game needs to be fixed immediately. How exactly did you approach this? Did the other team try to deny that there was a such thing as a protest or just sit there?

I hope whoever the tournament director is was told about this moderator immediately after this game.

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Post by East Buc & UMR »

Good teams may not like the one liners but maybe the not so good teams may like them. Have you ever tried to get everyone to agree on something? Now try to get all the quiz bowl teams to agree.

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ajax
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Post by ajax »

ScoBo1987 wrote:
Questions should always include all possible answers.

If a moderator does something that is majorly different from the MSHSAA rules (such as saying there's no such thing as a protest, unless of course the [WRITTEN] rules for the specific tournament state otherwise) I would try to get the situation resolved immediately, possibly going as far as getting the tournament director to come in and fix the situation.
Has anyone mentioned this act to MSHSAA? If the school is a MSHSAA participating school, then MSHSAA has the right to fix the problems in quiz bowl.

STPickrell
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Post by STPickrell »

ajax wrote:
Has anyone mentioned this act to MSHSAA? If the school is a MSHSAA participating school, then MSHSAA has the right to fix the problems in quiz bowl.
Do Conference tournaments have to follow MSHSAA rules and guidelines? I'd imagine District tournaments have to, since they are direct feeders to States. It would be in a Conference's best interest to have the same rules as states, but is it required?

In the VHSL, district regular season competitions and other independent tournaments do not have to follow VHSL rules. In fact, none of the independent tournaments follow VHSL rules.

District tournaments and region tournaments do have to follow the VHSL rules. (Previously, they had not, but in 2002, we got the rules changed, as one region and its districts were giving teams multiple-choice tests to determine the district region champions.)

East Buc & UMR
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Post by East Buc & UMR »

My conference the KCI uses the same timing and question format but instead of only 4 players we use 5. So I would figure conference can do what ever they want.

Scrag41
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Post by Scrag41 »

All I've got to say is that:

1) I totally agree with Brandon (for obvious reasons). He was not out-of-line at all.

2) Trey, you are awesome. Thanks for backing us up and calling the obvious bull****.


*But MC won at Savannah against Tarkio because it was A REAL TOURNAMENT.

MoundCityBMW...T
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Post by MoundCityBMW...T »

okay...i'm just here to say:

1)Pyramid Style questions test depth (which better teams have)
2)The moderator at tarkio was out of line.
3)how was i supposed to know that the paper at tarkio said porous and poriferous wasn't listed? I wouldn't know because i hadn't looked at the questions. oh snap
4)questions such as "what part of the cow do you squeeze to get milk?" don't belong in quiz bowl--let alone 2 questions about cows in one packet set. period.
5)quiz bowl is a buzzer race and the better/faster (i can't decide whether to put faster or better in parentheses) team will usually win.
6)I have never cheated--ever--nor has my team--ever--allegations made by anybody that thinks that myself or the Mound City Academic Bowl Team cheats--or has ever cheated-- is probably the result of getting spanked by us. Libelous allegations that state that myself or my team cheated at Savannah implies that Savannah helped us cheat--which is as unlikely as tarkio getting capitalized in one of my posts.
7)people need better things to do.

p.s. it's almost flattering (but not so much that it is funny/a little infuriating) that people think that I and my team cheat.

dangerousmind
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Post by dangerousmind »

But hey, atleast we're way better looking, right? ha just kidding

MoundCityBMW...T
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Post by MoundCityBMW...T »

But hey, atleast we're way better looking, right? ha just kidding
no seriously--we're better looking.

LibertyMarie
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Post by LibertyMarie »

Mound City=purple shirts, right? I think I remember staring at one of your team members at a taco bell or something last year (staring because of hawtness). No idea who (it was not the person on your team whom I knew). haha
uh...
awkward...

Scrag41
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Post by Scrag41 »

Yeah, MC sports the purple polo shirts (not nerdy at all....). As for the person you were staring at, I can't really see it being anyone (Jason, John, Brandon, etc. )because of their "hawtness"; you must be mistaken....

We are pretty good-looking, though, not gonna lie.

Better looking than tarkio. Hehe.

jcarkeys
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Post by jcarkeys »

Scrag41 wrote: Yeah, MC sports the purple polo shirts (not nerdy at all....). As for the person you were staring at, I can't really see it being anyone (Jason, John, Brandon, etc. )because of their "hawtness"; you must be mistaken....

We are pretty good-looking, though, not gonna lie.

Better looking than tarkio. Hehe.
You best be at state.

MoundCityBMW...T
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Post by MoundCityBMW...T »

Jeni--Marie said "last year"--it was probably Sam. or Matt. or Me. (maybe-probably not) or Catherine (hopefully not) or Mrs. White(!!!awkward!!!)

LibertyMarie
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Post by LibertyMarie »

Matt's the one I know. lol

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