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Talkin Smack when u aint no good

Discussion of non-quizbowl topics
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Charlie Dees
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Talkin Smack when u aint no good

Post by Charlie Dees » Sat Aug 19, 2006 12:11 am

OK, so I was talking to my cousin that graduated from SLUH in '05 about quizbowl and he showed me a few of their old newsletters online with little features whenever they compete (which is about twice a year) to show me that SLUH is a high quality team. Whenever they won their district they talked about how they really think they'll win state that year, and then when they got third in 2004 they downplayed it and made Parkway Central sound like they were actually a much weaker team, and were dissing them for the "one-man approach" when maybe they can't accept the fact that someone can actually be the better team (or they can just be Jimmy Li). I mean, when I think of good teams, 2004's PCH definitely checks in, while any SLUH team in MSHSAA history isn't registering. Does this behavior strike any body else as obnoxious, or am I paying too much attention to this. (I just despise this, personally, when any real team can spank them so much they won't sit down until the next tournament, as WCA and Ladue both did to SLUH throughout the year). And I'll say I do love team to team friendly-ish rivalries and FYM hardcore drama (thinkin Brandon v. Tarkio), but only when both teams are actually good and can back up what they say. Opinions?

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Post by mujason » Sat Aug 19, 2006 9:41 am

SLUH is a good team; of course, they'd be even better if they competed more, but their accomplishments are very good once you handicap for lack of playing time. Timo Kim was an excellent player for SLUH, and they have had other good players in the past as well.

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Post by Charlie Dees » Sat Aug 19, 2006 10:04 am

See, if you don't compete in any tournaments, you lose almost all of your cred because people pay attention to tournaments. And if you didn't notice, their district is definitely on the easy side. Also, how good a player was Timo Kim? If I remember correctly the only game they won at state was against a Kirksville team that was not on top of their game. [And while the only time I saw Kirksville was at Marshall where they beat us on the crappy :chip: questions, I could tell that they were a good enough team to deserve a top 4 in the state spot.]

Even if SLUH's team is good for what they do, that still doesn't actually mean they are a good team.

And that still doesn't address the arrogance of a team that disses Jimmy Li for beating them (and then winning state).

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Post by L-Town Expatriate » Sat Aug 19, 2006 10:26 am

ashkenaziCD wrote: See, if you don't compete in any tournaments, you lose almost all of your cred because people pay attention to tournaments. And if you didn't notice, their district is definitely on the easy side. Also, how good a player was Timo Kim? If I remember correctly the only game they won at state was against a Kirksville team that was not on top of their game. [And while the only time I saw Kirksville was at Marshall where they beat us on the crappy :chip: questions, I could tell that they were a good enough team to deserve a top 4 in the state spot.]

Even if SLUH's team is good for what they do, that still doesn't actually mean they are a good team.

And that still doesn't address the arrogance of a team that disses Jimmy Li for beating them (and then winning state).
Not to mention SLUH's district is on the weaker end of the list. I doubt anyone else in District 2 does much competing outside WashU and districts.

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Post by Charlie Dees » Sat Aug 19, 2006 11:50 am

Yeah, I mean, Rosati-Kain and Lafayette aren't exactly high quality competition. And as far as Timo Kim being a good player: being a good player is nice, but you either need to be good enough to win single-handedly (Mike Wehrman) or have a good backup (David from Savannah). Otherwise you can't cut it.
I would totally give up my individual high scorer medal for districts if it meant we won districts (not that we would have either way).

To sum up:
ALL THAT MATTERS IS HOW MUCH YOUR TEAM OVERALL CAN SCORE, NOT HOW MUCH YOU CAN!

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Post by STPickrell » Mon Aug 21, 2006 10:40 am

ashkenaziCD wrote: I would totally give up my individual high scorer medal for districts if it meant we won districts (not that we would have either way).
I'll second that (except for my various top scorer awards from my college career.)

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Post by Charlie Dees » Sun Dec 10, 2006 4:09 pm

Do those incredibly snotty shirts that some not amazing teams wear tick anyone besides me off?

Lexington has one this year that says "It's all about the hardware" and has a picture of a MSHSAA trophy that says "2007" on it.

Blue Springs has on that says on the front "I may not be a genius" and on the back "BUT I AM SMARTER THAN YOU"

Both teams that have never won state (and in Blue Springs's case, hasn't had really had a chance since Ryan Manuel) and didn't win districts last year. Both are teams that I can name any number of better teams (Savannah, Liberty, Ladue). Those shirts do nothing but ruffle feathers.

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Post by ryan » Sun Dec 10, 2006 5:59 pm

So only "good" teams are allowed to wear A-team shirts?

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Post by Jeffrey Hill » Sun Dec 10, 2006 6:18 pm

A team can wear what they want, when they don't put up the scores to prove it they're the ones who ultimately look stupid. On the other hand, if they wore a shirt that looked like that and won, it's still arrogant and unsportsmanlike. Now if they actually verbally say stuff like that I'd be a little annoyed.

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Post by Awehrman » Sun Dec 10, 2006 6:20 pm

Shirts like that are dumb and annoying, but they really should not bother anyone. A lot of the times parents buy them for the team. In Blue Springs' case the joke seems to be aimed more at the other students at their own school rather than their opponents. Good teams don't wear stupid shirts or carry stuffed animals, etc. Good teams beat those teams and don't think twice about it. You think the Wehrman brothers ever gave a moment's thought to what the other team was wearing? I can assure you that we did not. Say, I like that NKC is competitve again and everything and am pleased that they beat a cocky Blue Springs team, but isn't about time that ol' Charlie backed off the boards and let his play do the talking for a while? I would hate to see NKC lose districts again and have guys cracking wise about spending too much time on the boards and not enough time on the books. Or watching TV (which is also acceptable).

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Post by chad » Sun Dec 10, 2006 6:28 pm

So, would it be bad to have a team motto on the shirt if it is a motto we all should share?

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Post by Jeffrey Hill » Sun Dec 10, 2006 6:33 pm

chad wrote: So, would it be bad to have a team motto on the shirt if it is a motto we all should share?
It obviously depends. I definitely find the Blue Springs shirt to be arrogant and over-the-line (whether or not if it is directed at the rest of the Blue Springs student population); the Lexington one isn't nearly as bad but I can see how it falls under the same category as looking stupid if they don't win or being arrogant if they do win. If the motto in question can be seen as smack-talk then it should be avoided.

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Post by chad » Sun Dec 10, 2006 6:35 pm

How about "Go fast or go home"

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Post by Jeffrey Hill » Sun Dec 10, 2006 6:42 pm

chad wrote: How about "Go fast or go home"
I don't see too much of a problem with it... it does imply that the best teams will have speed on the buzzer. I don't really find it arrogant or anything, although it may be because "go fast" doesn't seem to be a very effective phrase.

Another reason it doesn't seem negative is that it's not specifically directed at any specific group so you're equally reminding others as well as yourselves that speed is important. If you aren't fast, you go home as equally as they do. This is obviously in contrast to "WE'RE smarter than you", although the Lexington shirt doesn't say anything like that either. Thinking about it that way, the Lexington shirt would only be bad if the depiction of the trophy said Lexington on it.

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Post by ryan » Sun Dec 10, 2006 6:48 pm

We are getting shirts sometime this year.

I believe they have a picture of a buzzer and "We prefer the term buzzer jockeys" on the front and it says Ozark Academic Team on the back.

I definatly wouldn't wear Blue Springs shirt though I agree.

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Post by FordATeam/CC » Sun Dec 10, 2006 9:47 pm

chad wrote: How about "Go fast or go home"
Actually, the team has taken on the motto "Speed up, or go home".

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Post by S.C.Mitchell07 » Sun Dec 10, 2006 9:56 pm

The only shirts McAuley had was "Don't hate us because we're beautiful - hate us because we are smarter than you." It's meant to be tongue-in-cheek and not serious at all. Why? Because nobody takes quizbowl seriously. And if you take it too seriously, you're bound to develop an entirely a surly attitude that nobody wants to associate with.

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Post by LibertyMarie » Sun Dec 10, 2006 10:22 pm

Awehrman wrote: You think the Wehrman brothers ever gave a moment's thought to what the other team was wearing?
Marie supposes not, although she personally remembers being weirded out by a person on another team wearing a cape.


best idea for a scholar bowl shirt ever, tragically vetoed by the coach:
"we're quick with our minds, and with our hands."

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Post by L-Town Expatriate » Sun Dec 10, 2006 10:22 pm

Lee's Summit one year wanted to say "If we don't beat you on the buzzers/We'll beat you in the parking lot." They asked several players what they thought, received mixed reactions, and made the shirts anyway.

When their coach found out, "beat you in the parking lot" was replaced with "? you in the parking lot".

This was the same team that chickened out of conference halfway through.

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Post by mujason » Sun Dec 10, 2006 10:40 pm

There is nothing wrong with a team having stuffed animals!!! Andy, apologize to Lefty and all the other team mascots out there. Lexington's shirt is wrong because they're 0-4 in title games in the MSHSAA era and didn't even make state last year. Just have a generic academic team shirt, or if you do have a saying, make it a joke and not a slam.

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Post by flycaitiee69 » Sun Dec 10, 2006 11:21 pm

Awehrman wrote: Good teams don't wear stupid shirts or carry stuffed animals, etc. Good teams beat those teams and don't think twice about it.
err....


lalala.

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Post by L-Town Expatriate » Sun Dec 10, 2006 11:56 pm

mujason wrote:There is nothing wrong with a team having stuffed animals!!!  Andy, apologize to Lefty and all the other team mascots out there.
Oy. :wacko: :wacko:
mujason wrote:Lexington's shirt is wrong because they're 0-4 in title games in the MSHSAA era and didn't even make state last year.  Just have a generic academic team shirt, or if you do have a saying, make it a joke and not a slam.
Agreed. "Carol never knew answer. Now she doesn't need to."

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Post by Charlie Dees » Mon Dec 11, 2006 7:15 am

I never got the "Carol" joke. I played Liberty 6 times and it still made no sense.

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Post by Charlie Dees » Mon Dec 11, 2006 7:17 am

Awehrman wrote: Say, I like that NKC is competitve again and everything and am pleased that they beat a cocky Blue Springs team, but isn't about time that ol' Charlie backed off the boards and let his play do the talking for a while?
The unfortunate part of that statement is that the two better KC tournaments this year have conflicted with other events, so we can't get to as much. Next semester is looking a little more loaded up date-wise.

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Post by East Buc & UMR » Mon Dec 11, 2006 8:19 am

I never got the "Carol" joke. I played Liberty 6 times and it still made no sense.
You seem to not get many Jokes

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Post by Charlie Dees » Mon Dec 11, 2006 8:51 am

Well, what is "Carol" a reference to? I can't really get a referential joke without knowing the reference.

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Post by LibertyMarie » Mon Dec 11, 2006 10:29 am

Image

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Post by Charlie Dees » Mon Dec 11, 2006 10:32 am

THAT'S AMAZING!

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