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Ladue Invitational Spring Tournament (LIST) - 4/2/2011

Tournament announcements, results, and discussion about specific tournaments.
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Mewto55555
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Ladue Invitational Spring Tournament (LIST) - 4/2/2011

Post by Mewto55555 »

Feel free to discuss questions now. (5/23)


The Ladue Academic Team is pleased to announced that we will be holding our inaugural quizbowl tournament on Saturday, April 2nd, 2011. We hope to attract many teams from across the state and perhaps some out-of-state teams as well.

As the MSHSAA state series begins the week afterwards, this is a perfect opportunity to tune-up ahead of time, and is also the last contest before the conclusion of the regular scholarbowl season. So, if you want to get in one more tournament, go ahead and sign up!

For questions, we will be writing our own high-quality set, the exact details of which can be found below.

Entry Fees:
First team from a school: $70
Second team from the same school: $65
Any additional teams from the same school: $60
Buzzer discount*: $5 per system
Staff discount*: $5 per staff member.

*Buzzers and staff are on an as-needed, first-come, first-serve basis. When registering, please detail how many staff and/or buzzers you may be able to bring. As the tournament approaches, we will let you know whether they are needed or not.

We are setting a tentative field cap of 36 teams. There is no maximum to the number of teams each school may bring. We will likely be able to expand if there is enough interest, but until that point, we will accept teams on a first-come, first-serve basis. If our field fills, we will be able to guarantee every team in attendance at least 10 games, if not more. To sign up, please send an email to me at igoroogenflagenstein@gmail.com

SET DETAILS:

We will be shooting for a very high tossup conversion throughout this tournament, so the answer lines to tossups will be relatively easy. The questions will be pyramidal in nature, so they will be excellent for play between any level of team attending this tournament. Each round will consist of 20 tossups and 20 non-rebounding thirty-point bonuses. There will be powers, so any correct buzz before a pre-specified point in the question will earn 15 points (contrasted with the usual 10), and there will be negs, so any early incorrect buzz will cost your team 5 points. The distribution of the tossups and bonuses will be as follows (each number is how many tossups and how many bonuses, so 4 History means 4 history tossups and 4 history bonuses per packet):

4 History: 1 American, 1 European, 1 World, 1 Ancient
4 Literature: 1 American, 1 British, 1 European, 1 World
4 Science: 1 Physics, 1 Biology, 1 Chemistry, 1 Misc. Science
2 RMP (Religion, Mythology, Philosophy)
1 Math (Non-computational)
1 Art
1 Music
1 Geography
1 Social Sciences
1 Current Events
1 Trash (Pop Culture and Sports)

As you may have noticed, the total is 21 tossups and bonuses per match. The extra tossup and bonus will be used as replacements or tiebreakers if necessary. If further tiebreakers are needed, we will have extras on hand. Upon completion of the tournament, we will distribute copies of the set to all teams in attendance. Specific questions about the set can be emailed to me at igoroogenflagenstein@gmail.com

We hope to see you here at Ladue on April 2nd! If you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask.

Max Schindler: LIST Co-Tournament Director.



FINAL FIELD):

Registered (18):
Clayton (2)
De Smet (2)
Eureka (1)
Jeff City (2)
Marion (2)
Oakville (1)
Parkway West (2)
Rock Bridge (1)
Rockwood Summit (1)
Savannah (2)
SLUH (1)
Tuscumbia (1)

Buzzers (13+):
Tuscumbia (2)
SLUH (1)
Oakville (1)
Jeff City (1)
Parkway West (2)
Eureka (1)
Clayton (1)
Hancock (1)
Rockwood Summit (2)
Marion (1)
Rock Bridge (a bunch)
Last edited by Mewto55555 on Mon May 23, 2011 3:29 pm, edited 25 times in total.

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Re: Ladue Invitational Spring Tournament (LIST) - 4/2/2011

Post by DeckardCain »

I should be able to read for this if needed.

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octo
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Re: Ladue Invitational Spring Tournament (LIST) - 4/2/2011

Post by octo »

sign me up mang

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Re: Ladue Invitational Spring Tournament (LIST) - 4/2/2011

Post by L-Town Expatriate »

Good breakdown and should be a great tournament. Also wonderful to see Ladue take on the rewarding challenge of writing pyramidal questions.

With only 21 questions in a set, though, what happens if the tie's not broken with the extra tossup?

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Re: Ladue Invitational Spring Tournament (LIST) - 4/2/2011

Post by Mewto55555 »

We'll have an extra ten or so tossups on hand in case that happens.

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Re: Ladue Invitational Spring Tournament (LIST) - 4/2/2011

Post by WilliamofOrange »

I have a quick question: Since you're writing tossups with simpler giveaway clues to help raise tossup conversion (which I think is a fine concept) does this mean that the preceding lines will be accordingly easier? I'm sure you've figured out a way around this, but I feel like this will lead to a proportionally large number of buzzer races in many games where the field's top teams aren't represented.

In other news, Eureka's planning on coming to this (barring conflicts with prom) and my coach will e-mail yours our official registration once it's decided for certain that we're going. If it turns out we can't come as a team, I can likely help staff.

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Re: Ladue Invitational Spring Tournament (LIST) - 4/2/2011

Post by Machina »

Prom is the night before this, but I'm thinking we'll be able to come.

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Re: Ladue Invitational Spring Tournament (LIST) - 4/2/2011

Post by L-Town Expatriate »

Mewto55555 wrote:We'll have an extra ten or so tossups on hand in case that happens.
Hopefully it won't come to that, but I found it easier to have each packet contain an extra question in each major subject (this was before 20/20). While we didn't have to delve deep into it, it did allow us to avoid inadvertently using a backup question more than once, which could happen if there's one central sheet for backups.

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Re: Ladue Invitational Spring Tournament (LIST) - 4/2/2011

Post by Mewto55555 »

WilliamofOrange wrote:I have a quick question: Since you're writing tossups with simpler giveaway clues to help raise tossup conversion (which I think is a fine concept) does this mean that the preceding lines will be accordingly easier? I'm sure you've figured out a way around this, but I feel like this will lead to a proportionally large number of buzzer races in many games where the field's top teams aren't represented.
Much of the focus on making this tournament "easier" will not so much be the clues themselves, but the answer lines. We are primarily focusing on picking answers which we find it highly likely that at least one person on each team will have heard of. There's nothing we can do when both teams only know the giveaway, but we are trying to make the questions as clue-dense as possible and not have sudden drops in difficulty to avoid as many buzzer races as possible.

As for tiebreaks, we don't know yet exactly how many questions we will have. If we go with the approach described above, we will ensure that no repeats can occur.

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Re: Ladue Invitational Spring Tournament (LIST) - 4/2/2011

Post by WilliamofOrange »

Ah, gotcha. That makes more sense. Thanks for clarifying for me.

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Re: Ladue Invitational Spring Tournament (LIST) - 4/2/2011

Post by Charlie Dees »

L-Town Expatriate wrote:
Mewto55555 wrote:We'll have an extra ten or so tossups on hand in case that happens.
Hopefully it won't come to that, but I found it easier to have each packet contain an extra question in each major subject (this was before 20/20). While we didn't have to delve deep into it, it did allow us to avoid inadvertently using a backup question more than once, which could happen if there's one central sheet for backups.
This is not a problem. All you need to do to prevent errors is have a single copy of the tiebreakers, which only the tournament director has access to. The TD then will go to the games, break the ties, and then can easily write down which teams heard what on the sheet.
Last edited by Charlie Dees on Tue Dec 21, 2010 12:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Ladue Invitational Spring Tournament (LIST) - 4/2/2011

Post by L-Town Expatriate »

ashkenaziCD wrote:
L-Town Expatriate wrote:
Mewto55555 wrote:We'll have an extra ten or so tossups on hand in case that happens.
Hopefully it won't come to that, but I found it easier to have each packet contain an extra question in each major subject (this was before 20/20). While we didn't have to delve deep into it, it did allow us to avoid inadvertently using a backup question more than once, which could happen if there's one central sheet for backups.
This is not a problem. All you need to do to prevent errors is have a single copy of the tiebreakers, which only the tournament has access to. The TD then will go to the games, break the ties, and then can easily write down which teams heard what on the sheet.
Simple enough, and it works too. Granted, were one to be completely anal about consistency (read: moi), having someone else read a tiebreaker question would be like switching out the zebras on a football field after regulation, whereas having backups for each round allows the moderator to simply replace without causing too much delay. But to each his/her own.

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Re: Ladue Invitational Spring Tournament (LIST) - 4/2/2011

Post by Mewto55555 »

Yay, a field update!


Registered (11/36):
De Smet (2)
Jeff City (1)
Oakville (1)
Savannah (2)
SLUH (1)
Sullivan (2)
Tuscumbia (2)


Buzzers (4/18):
Tuscumbia (1)
SLUH (1)
Oakville (1)
Jeff City (1)

As you can see, the field is filling rather quickly; y'all should register before you find yourself on a waitlist! (edit: this field is no longer current, look at the top post for the running tally)
Last edited by Mewto55555 on Mon Jan 10, 2011 5:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Ladue Invitational Spring Tournament (LIST) - 4/2/2011

Post by octo »

Yeah, we can bring a buzzer too.

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Re: Ladue Invitational Spring Tournament (LIST) - 4/2/2011

Post by Mewto55555 »

This tournament is now certified by the MOQBA!

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Re: Ladue Invitational Spring Tournament (LIST) - 4/2/2011

Post by L-Town Expatriate »

Odd nitpick: Am I to surmise that Ladue won't have buzzers at their own tournament?

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Re: Ladue Invitational Spring Tournament (LIST) - 4/2/2011

Post by Mewto55555 »

We have two buzzer sets of our own, so if other teams plan to bring as many as necessary to run the tournament, we'll have two extra sets in case something goes wrong.

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Re: Ladue Invitational Spring Tournament (LIST) - 4/2/2011

Post by L-Town Expatriate »

Again, to each his/her own, but it might be helpful for host sets to be in the championship rooms. That way, you don't have delays or last-minute room changes if a team you were expecting to make it to the finals didn't. It also has the last-remaining schools' systems packed and ready to go when they're done.

Something to consider as it gets closer to tournament time.

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Re: Ladue Invitational Spring Tournament (LIST) - 4/2/2011

Post by Mewto55555 »

Well if we have 36 teams, we will run playoffs the same way as Tiger Bowl, which means we have a whole awards ceremony for buzzers to be packed and unpacked as necessary, knowing who has made super-playoffs, and to set up the two superplayoff rooms with buzzers accordingly. No matter how we decide to distribute the buzzers, we will still be aiming to have floor(n/2)+2 systems in total, which necessitates other teams bringing floor(n/2).

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Re: Ladue Invitational Spring Tournament (LIST) - 4/2/2011

Post by Mewto55555 »

With the addition of Clayton, we are now at 15 teams, almost halfway full!

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Re: Ladue Invitational Spring Tournament (LIST) - 4/2/2011

Post by Mewto55555 »

We're trying to figure out how much staff we're going to need to wrangle up; if any of you want to help out and moderate here, please shoot me an email (igoroogenflagenstein@gmail.com).

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Re: Ladue Invitational Spring Tournament (LIST) - 4/2/2011

Post by socalcaptain »

I would, but I've got to work a Mizzou track meet that weekend. I'm already skipping one the next weekend, so I better stick around for the Relays.

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Re: Ladue Invitational Spring Tournament (LIST) - 4/2/2011

Post by Mewto55555 »

We are now halfway full.

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Re: Ladue Invitational Spring Tournament (LIST) - 4/2/2011

Post by octo »

Put us down for another team.

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Re: Ladue Invitational Spring Tournament (LIST) - 4/2/2011

Post by Mewto55555 »

With the addition of Marion, we now have an out-of-state team attending!

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Re: Ladue Invitational Spring Tournament (LIST) - 4/2/2011

Post by Mewto55555 »

Verbatim from the email I'm about to send out:

Dear Coaches,

I'm happy to be able to now provide the specific information for Ladue's tournament, to be held a little less than 2 weeks from now, on April 2nd.

As of now, we have 18 teams attending, bringing a total of 12 buzzer systems. Please check the list at the bottom to confirm the accuracy of the information. If you would like to sign up another team or two, the option is still there to do so!

The tournament will take place at Ladue Horton Watkins High School, 1201 S. Warson Rd, St. Louis, MO, 63124. You will want to enter via the front entrance, where some of our freshmen will be waiting to guide you to registration. There will be lots of parking on either side of the school, and both lots should be available.

Registration will begin at 8, and hopefully conclude around 8:45, at which point a quick rules meeting and run-down of the schedule will occur. We will then play 5 or 6 preliminary games, followed by lunch at approximately 12. Since there aren't really too much in the way of restaurants within walking distance, we will be ordering pizza to be sold by the slice during lunch-time. If you would like to partake of this pizza, please let us know what toppings you and your team would like to buy and how many pieces, so we know what to order.

Following this, we will have around 5 or more rounds of play, and then an awards ceremony, followed by finals if we need them. We will have awards for the top few teams, as well as books as prizes for the top few individuals and members of the top teams. We estimate that the awards will be over somewhere from 4-5, and the finals will take at most an hour.

If you have any questions or concerns, please ask!

Teams registered:

Clayton (2 teams, 1 buzzer)
De Smet (2 teams)
Eureka (1 team, 1 buzzer)
Hancock (1 team, 1 buzzer)
Jeff City (2 teams, 1 buzzer)
Marion (1 team, 1 buzzer)
Oakville (1 team, 1 buzzer)
Parkway West (2 teams, 2 buzzers)
Rockwood Summit (1 team, 2 buzzers)
Savannah (2 teams)
SLUH (1 team, 1 buzzer)
Tuscumbia (2 teams, 1 buzzer, 1 staff)

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Re: Ladue Invitational Spring Tournament (LIST) - 4/2/2011

Post by Mewto55555 »

Tuscumbia just dropped a team so we're down to 17. People should sign up!

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Re: Ladue Invitational Spring Tournament (LIST) - 4/2/2011

Post by MichaelMenkhus »

With Marion coming, does this mean that the LIST will be a NSC qualifier?

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Re: Ladue Invitational Spring Tournament (LIST) - 4/2/2011

Post by scphilli »

Marion's attendance is not what qualifies a tournament as an NSC qualifier. The rules for NSC I think are somewhere on this site, but in a nutshell you have to offer pyramidal (not the one line, speed check q's) and a certain number of games iirc.

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Re: Ladue Invitational Spring Tournament (LIST) - 4/2/2011

Post by Mewto55555 »

According to the website:
Any tournament which uses head-to-head, two-team buzzer competition, in a format that is largely dependent on pyramidal tossups, offers all teams at least four games, is not designed exclusively for what can be considered junior varsity teams and is not known to have had major problems in the recent past, may become affiliated. To request affiliation for your tournament, contact PACE Qualification Director George Berry at georgeberry.vcu@gmail.com.
So we pretty much meet all that and should almost certainly be affiliated. We also have a possibility of going gold, depending on how well y'all play.
Gold-certified tournaments are affiliated tournaments which offer all teams at least seven games, use varsity-level questions deemed “good” by the PACE Certification Committee, and have at least two teams in attendance likely to finish in the top half of the NSC. Gold-certified tournaments will qualify 2 additional teams at each field size level in comparison to normal affiliated events–the top 4 for tournaments of fewer than 20 teams, the top 6 for tournaments of 20 to 39 teams, and the top 10 for tournaments of 40 or more teams. .

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Re: Ladue Invitational Spring Tournament (LIST) - 4/2/2011

Post by MichaelMenkhus »

Thanks. Oakville's looking to maybe qualify a couple more people for NSC... So we need all the qualifiers we can get.

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Re: Ladue Invitational Spring Tournament (LIST) - 4/2/2011

Post by Charbroil »

Mr. Chekhov wrote:Thanks. Oakville's looking to maybe qualify a couple more people for NSC... So we need all the qualifiers we can get.
You don't qualify people for NSC, but teams--so if you've already qualified a team for the tournament, anyone can play on that team.

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Re: Ladue Invitational Spring Tournament (LIST) - 4/2/2011

Post by MichaelMenkhus »

Really? My coach was wondering about how we could send more people without qualifying more teams...


...Not that I'm complaining.

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Re: Ladue Invitational Spring Tournament (LIST) - 4/2/2011

Post by dividebyzero »

Well, correct me if I'm wrong, but there is a limit to the number of players per team, right?
Regardless, what Charles says still stands.

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Re: Ladue Invitational Spring Tournament (LIST) - 4/2/2011

Post by Charbroil »

dividebyzero wrote:Well, correct me if I'm wrong, but there is a limit to the number of players per team, right?
Is there? I wasn't aware of one, but I really have no idea.

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Re: Ladue Invitational Spring Tournament (LIST) - 4/2/2011

Post by Charlie Dees »

I see nothing in PACE's rules that puts an explicit limit on their roster. Neither does NAQT. ACF is the organization with the 6 person limit.

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Re: Ladue Invitational Spring Tournament (LIST) - 4/2/2011

Post by dividebyzero »

I was definitely looking at NSC rules, but I guess I either read something from last year's rules or I just misinterpreted it.

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Re: Ladue Invitational Spring Tournament (LIST) - 4/2/2011

Post by Charlie Dees »

Whoops, you're right, I didn't read it right. There is a 6 person cap on each team at PACE.

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Re: Ladue Invitational Spring Tournament (LIST) - 4/2/2011

Post by Mewto55555 »

And with Rock Bridge's entry we hit 18 which has a large number of integer factors; I'll be closing the field to any new additions unless someone drops.

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Re: Ladue Invitational Spring Tournament (LIST) - 4/2/2011

Post by Jeffrey Hill »

Mewto55555 wrote:And with Rock Bridge's entry we hit 18 which has a large number of integer factors.
So I take it you're not going to divide the field into 7 pools of 2.571428571...? :)

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Re: Ladue Invitational Spring Tournament (LIST) - 4/2/2011

Post by Mewto55555 »

For those of you waiting with bated breath, LIST is now done with randomized edited packets. It should be a great tournament!

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Re: Ladue Invitational Spring Tournament (LIST) - 4/2/2011

Post by Mewto55555 »

So as it turns out (and I should have posted earlier), we will NOT be doing bouncebacks on bonuses. Hopefully this doesn't cramp anyone's style too much.

(no this is not a poorly-conceived April Fool's Day thing)

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Re: Ladue Invitational Spring Tournament (LIST) - 4/2/2011

Post by christino »

Poor time to post that, Max. :lol:

Just to clarify, we will be using ACF rules, but without a roster limit and with powers.

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Re: Ladue Invitational Spring Tournament (LIST) - 4/2/2011

Post by Mewto55555 »

Guys, this set is being used elsewhere, so please don't discuss questions after the tournament ends. If you have specific comments, please email me!

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Re: Ladue Invitational Spring Tournament (LIST) - 4/2/2011

Post by logic2718 »

no bounce backs....frustrating.

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Re: Ladue Invitational Spring Tournament (LIST) - 4/2/2011

Post by Charlie Dees »

Playoff teams:
Clayton A (5-0)
Rock Bridge (5-0)
Savannah A (5-0)
Jefferson City (4-1)
SLUH (4-1)
Parkway West B (4-1)

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Charlie Dees
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Re: Ladue Invitational Spring Tournament (LIST) - 4/2/2011

Post by Charlie Dees »

Clayton A is undefeated, I think Jefferson City is 4-1 and in the finals.

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Re: Ladue Invitational Spring Tournament (LIST) - 4/2/2011

Post by logic2718 »

sorry about instigating the bouncebacks thing...I actually don't care and I realize both ways (bouncebacks or not) are equally legitimate. i was just saying that it's frustrating for the player. but whatever, the main reason I made that post was to get notified when people post here, so I can see the stats when they come up.

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Re: Ladue Invitational Spring Tournament (LIST) - 4/2/2011

Post by Jeffrey Hill »

logic2718 wrote:sorry about instigating the bouncebacks thing...I actually don't care and I realize both ways (bouncebacks or not) are equally legitimate. i was just saying that it's frustrating for the player. but whatever, the main reason I made that post was to get notified when people post here, so I can see the stats when they come up.
You should be able to just click "subscribe topic" at the top of the page right below the "new topic" button (assuming you're using the default theme) without having to post.

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Re: Ladue Invitational Spring Tournament (LIST) - 4/2/2011

Post by logic2718 »

ah. makes sense. evidently, I'm not that skilled with these newfangled internets.

anyway, I'd just like to congratulate Ladue on a very well run tournament and a great set of questions. I was quite impressed with the smoothness of the tournament, the quality of the reading, and the quality of the questions. Like any set, there were a few issues (which should not be discussed in the specific cases here), but on the whole, it was extremely good. With their first-ever house written tournament, Ladue has shown that the Missouri circuit is able to produce/support such forward-thinking actions as high schools writing tournaments.
Thanks for a fun tournament!

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